Wine Tasting with Nick Goldschmidt

Gary Vaynerchuk talks with Nick Goldschmidt’s experiences about the winemaking business from all around the world and taste the first wine.

Gary: Hello everybody and welcome to Wine Library TV, I am your host Gary Vaynerchuk. And this my friends is the thunder show, AKA the internet’s most passionate wine program. And if you are of a young age, you are going to have to turn away because this man, this guest, will talk about sleeping with sheep on this episode. So I just want to save all the awkwardness. Mr. Goldschimdt, why won’t you tell the Vayner Nation who you are. Nick: I am Nick Goldschmidt. And no, I don’t sleep with sheep, those are my Australian cousins. I’m a New Zealander man, we don’t share our sheep. Gary: It’s to your own. Nick: Absolutely. And you know, you know how Australians get a girl for the sheep, right? Gary: I don’t. Don’t look at me, tell them. Nick: One, two, three, get over, four, five, six… Gary: Is there a true rivalry between the New Zealander and (Voice Overlap) Nick: Well, it is. You know, because it is… Gary: Is it real? Nick: Absolutely because when New Zealand was moved to Australia, it increased the IQs of both countries. So that’s where we have seen the ugly sheep, in Australia. What else do you want? That’s why God hadn’t been in Australia. Gary: Are you just going to drill Australia the whole show? Nick: Why not? Gary: You make wine in Australia. Nick: I’m probably Jewish. Don’t you want to drill the Jews as well? Gary: Is that what you can do in Australia just the whole time? Nick: Jews, French, whatever nationality you want. What are you? Gary: I’m Jewish and Russian. Nick: Perfect. I don’t know any Russians so you are going to get away safely then. Gary: Thank God. Nick: But you are a Jets fan, I can kind of pick you on that. Gary: Please because—did you see my face I got (Voice Overlap) Nick: What is that pink bucket show that I show? Gary: That was Seattle. I was in Seattle. Nick: I know. They got a pink buckt. Gary: It was disrespectful, right? Nick: I thought it was very respectful for the quality. That thing that you put in the supporting. I am a rugby fan, not a grid on fan. Gary: You know what’s so funny about this? You could come in here and punch me on the face and spit on me, and I’ll continue to support your wines as I have for years. But now, no doubt in my mind, we will do less business together. Nick: Because of the Jets? Gary: Yes. Nick: They’re the green guys, right? Gary: Yes. Nick: They play with grid on, right? Gary: Yes. Nick: Okay. I’ll watch them next week. I don’t understand grab on, that’s the whole point. Gary: Listen, I respect that. Listen, you’re a colorful character, you’re a very sweet guy. We’ve done a lot of business together in between this wonderful person Barbara who is sitting here but we’ve never met before. Have we? Nick: No. Not legally. Gary: We already like each other, right? Why don’t you tell me—I mean, with all the joking aside, similar to me—you know, I can actually get serious when it comes to business. You built quite a wine empire. You’ve been a big fan of mine. I just noticed his logo, he’s been a big fan of the GV. So I’ve always appreciated that you created a logo in support of what I do. Nick: I’m glad you noticed. Gary: But, why don’t you tell them a little bit of your history. Where you come from, how you’ve come to this industry, what your passions are, because you have a very interesting take on things. Nick: Well Gary, I’m from North Dakota. Gary: Born and raised. Nick: But you know, my people in California go as, “Oh, you sound like a bit.” No, actually I’m from New Zealand. I left New Zealand in ’83. I went to the University of New Zealand with about two degrees there and then I went to Australia and then I got two degrees there. I finally found my wine (Voice Overlap). I have a degree in Civil Engineering and then I have a degree in horticulture and then I have a degree in viticulture and a BS Graduate on technology. So in around a bit way, I ended up supporting a habit. Gary: Yes you did. Nick: So then from there, I made wine briefly in New Zealand. Gary: Where? Nick: Cooper’s Creek, Kumeu River, and Babich. Gary: Kumeu River is a chardonnay program. Substantially serious. Nick: Well, it wasn’t Kumeu River when I worked there. They had to change the name to get rid of the wine so I made it. Previously, it was called San Marino. Gary: You’re wines, you really import what you need? Nick: Absolutely, so we’re drinking the wine as we moved on. Gary: Fair enough. Nick: So anyway, after that, I decided to leave Babich and I’d finish my time in Australia and I wanted to do 18 months around the world. So I came to California and worked briefly in the 89 harvest during the earthquake years. Gary: That was the worst California vintage of the 80’s. Nick: No. But New Zealand is used to betray us. So it was a great opportunity for me to share my experience at the time. Gary: Who did you work with? Nick: You really want to know? Gary: Yes. Nick: Canero’s Creek. Gary: Did they like blame you for ruining the vintage? Nick: Why not? I moved on very quickly from there. They were up selling the wine once or twice. So now from there, I went to South America. So I was the first winemaker for a winery Caliterra. Gary: No kidding. Nick: Since these days, I still consulted with Sena, Don Maximiano, Chadwick. Errazuriz say that I’m still very heavily involved with Edwardo Chadwick. He runs those wineries now. I consult in Argentina. I still consult in New Zealand and Australia, Spain and of course I live in Georgia. Gary: Well, you just jumped into like—Well, what now? I was getting excited. You went Argentina, and then what happened? Nick: After I had gone back towards, and then I was with Pinochet. And then in Pinochet… Gary: No, go back. What happened? Nick: You see it as a serious thing. Gary: Absolutely. It was just like, it was crazy? Nick: Total mayhem. Gary: Guns to the back? Nick: Guns to the back. Well now, I just went here and take everything and they just take everything and run away. What else do you want? I mean in those days, it was so poor. We just move in a pair. And then I was in Chile during the Pinochet so as with the change of government so we robbed bullet and tear gas that night too. This was back in 1990 when Pinochet handed Peru to Edmund. So, I’ve had some fun times. Gary: Then what? Nick: Believe it or not, I got the job as the winemaker at Simi’s. So I became the winemaker at Simi Winery in Healdsburg. Gary: That sounds like a sell out job. Nick: For 14 years. Gary: Was that a sell out job? Nick: Absolutely not. I learned all of that wine. Gary: You know, it’s crazy. I’m thinking about, you made some scary good wines. I mean the ’94 Simi Reserve cap with that black (Inaudible) label. Nick: That was a freak one. It was a lucky one. Good vintage. Gary: That was honestly one of my favorite wines of all time. ’94 Simi Reserve Cab. Nick: I appreciate that. Gary: Cheers to that. Nick: Cheers mate. Gary: But really, I mean, that was like one of the first great wines that I thought I have. I’m probably wrong, but you know, I was young. But I just remember being obsessed with that wine. Nick: Thank you so much. Me too. Gary: Was it a good one. Nick: You know what, I still got a little bit of that. Gary: Can I get one? Nick: Absolutely, why not? Gary: Awesome, I appreciate it. Nick: You have to drink it in my house. Gary: Fine. That’s really exciting. Nick: I’m probably Jewish, you got to have come and eat with me. That’s part of the deal. Gary: Let me ask you another thing, when you were at Sydney, were you making that white crazy wine in the pink label? Nick: Yes. Sandel. How do you know that? How long have you been living? You look half my age. Gary: Nick, I am a legend. What you need to understand here is I’m one of the greats. I remember every wine I’ve every had, vintages—I’ve been around much longer than you think. Nick: Obviously. Gary: That was good. I’m astounding you, right? Nick: You are. I can’t believe that. But I would say—you’re really reaching that. Did you just check that out on the internet? Is that what you just did? Gary: That’s what I do. Seriously, did that wine sell it all? Because I used to buy that as a (Voice Overlap) Nick: It was introductory. (Voice Overlap) Gary: If you like gold, it was like you were trying to sell soft. Nick: No. That wine rocked though. Gary: It was great. Sauvignon is underrated. Nick: It doesn’t get the respect. Gary: No doubt about it. Nick: So, 14 years at Simi. Gary: That’s a long time. Hold on, time out again. I’m enjoying myself. Nick: Okay. Gary: Simi ’97 Regular Cab, it got a 90 in the spectator, right? Nick: I don’t remember that. How do you remember that? Gary: I remember because I bought every single case in New Jersey. Do you remember this chaos? This was like ten years ago. Simi was available from like six different distributors. Somehow, I found out that it was going to be a 90. I bought 850 cases from Babs. Babs was like, “Are you serious?” I bought from everyone. I had every case and the spectator came out and it was 90 points. Back then, a 90 point California Cab under $15 was like… Nick: Wow! You made on the 15. That wasn’t supposed to be. Gary: That is true. That is fair. We sold 2,000 cases of that wine. Nick: I thought I stumbled some over here. Gary: Yes. We still have it. We sold 2,000 cases of that wine in like a 30-day period. Nick: That’s funny. We only 1500. Gary: We put our labels, different labels. You know, Photoshop. Nick: I know. We would psyche labels. Gary: How many cases did you make there actually? How much cab was made? Nick: Fifty. Gary: I mean, the big number. Nick: 200. Gary: How many? I don’t know. Nick: 200 cases? Gary: That was a big, big number, right? Nick: In 1997, we probably made at about 900,000 cases. Gary: Yes. You looked at me like I was so odd. That was actually an amazing guess. Nick: I know, it was a great guess. But you know that saying in Australia? You know what they want with the other labels? Gary: You really hate Australians. Nick: I love Australia. Gary: Tell the truth, do you like them or not? Once and for all for the record, for all time, you’re great, great grandchildren will watch this one day. It’s going to be archived. What is your stand with Australians? Nick: I love Australians. Gary: That’s it. Nick: Thank God it’s above sea level. Gary: And that’s it? Nick: I love Australia. Gary: Okay. We got a genuine moment. Nick: I actually paid taxes in Australia. Gary: That’s how much you love them. Nick: That’s how much I love them. Gary: And so then, Simi, then go ahead. Nick: So, Simi was bought by Constellations so I had a great run at constellations, awesome company. And they are really a large company now of course. But in 2003, I left and went to run Allied Domecq. So Allied Domecq in California included Clos du Bois, William Hill, Atlas Peak, Mumm, Gary Ferrel, Buena Vista and seven other countries. So I looked up to Mexico, Portugal, Spain, New Zealand, Australia, Chile and Argentina. Gary: In Mexico, was it Baja, California. Nick: Yes. Well, there are 13 wineries in the Guadalupe Valley and Domecq is one of them. Gary: Are you excited about Guadalupe Valley? Nick: Absolutely. I’m excited with every winery. Gary: Well, that I know. But I mean honestly, Guadalupe Valley like Baja, California, I think there is massive potential there. Nick: Not as many, many problems. Gary: Tell. Nick: You can get over the problems but during farming down the valley. The problem is, firstly, it got conquered by the Italians, the French, and the Germans, so then you get every damn variety there. Secondly, it’s very high salt. So you got big problems with soil. And obviously, you’re short of water as well, so the salinity continues to increase. You’ve also got nematodes which is a little insect with phylloxerae and you’ve also got phylloxera and you got virus. So you’re really up against it. But it’s a great area. It’s exciting. I love being with the people down there. And if they move further down the valley or up the valley, it’s much better and it’s a little cooler because the breeze is coming through there. Gary: So where can you get your places to make wine in Mexico? Nick: California. Gary: Okay. Nick: I love Mexico. There are three sort of sub air pollutions along the Guadalupe valley. Gary: I just realized why this guy is always getting mugged and shot. Truly, everybody left and right. Nick: So Simi and then I went with Allied Domecq. I saw and I looked after that until 2006. And then, Allied Domecq is an aggressive take between Pernod Ricard and Jim Beam. Gary: I remember. Nick: Now, I’ve already went with the French and I’ve already told them my French jokes. Do you want to? Gary: Please go ahead. Nick: You know have the English soy, you now have the American soy, you now have the French soy. Gary: (Laughs) That is not nice. Nick: I like it. So I ended up going with Jim Beam and worked there for a couple of years. Jim Beam was a good company too but in the end, they ended up selling back to Constellation and I’ve decided not to go back. They’ve already had Forefathers out for 13 years or 12 years at that point. Gary: Is that how long Forefathers have been around? Nick: How old are you again? Gary: 33. Nick: You knew the other one, you should know this one instead. Gary: What are you talking about? I bought 800 cases of ’98 Forefathers Shiraz. Nick: Like I do the math, 28, how old is that? Gary: Geez. Luckily it’s 6 to 1. Nick: Exactly. Gary: Yeah. Nick: Don’t catch up. Gary: I’m just getting older. Nick: So Forefathers means the forefather appellation for that variety in the new world. When I was making wine for (Inaudible) Gary: No. You’re tremendous. I just can’t believe how old I am. Nick: You’re still doing the math. Gary: Yeah. Nick: That equals 12. Gary: I understand. Nick: So I decided that it’s impossible to have one vineyard to make the best Cabernet, Chardonnay, Merlot or whatever in the world. So I was traveling around the world anyway for Allied Domecq that I would make—we were to beat the best Sauvignon Blanc in the world Mobra with the best Shiraz, in my mind, the Claribelle in Australia and with the best cabernet in the world, obviously, California. So that’s what Forefather means. Gary: Why didn’t you call it Alexander Valley then? You weren’t specific with the other two. Nick: Because I don’t want to get in the whole conversation, but now you brought it out. I think Alexander Valley is sweeter, rounder, riper and easy to have that second glass where as Napa Valley is more powerful and you need a little bit more time maybe with maybe bit more heir… Gary: How about Walla Walla Washington? Nick: What do you know about Walla Walla Washington? Gary: I’ve been there most of the time. Nick: You know, I’m a consultant there too. Gary: Do you know I garage sell in Walla Walla Washington? Nick: Really? Gary: I was there early with a meeting with Nordstar and they sent a limo to pick me up, and I was in my garage selling base and it was a Saturday. I pulled up the garage sales in the limo and haggled $0.50 till quarter and bought stuffed animals that I flew home with. Nick: That’s the problem. Are you sure you’re not probably Australian? Gary: I’m not. Nick: Oh my goodness! Are we talking about wine? Gary: I’m always talking wine. Nick: Me too. Gary: I just think that Walla Walla is the potential (Voice Overlap) Nick: I’ve just had a consulting up there. Gary: With who? Give us a Wine Library TV exclusive. Have you not signed the contract yet? Nick: It’s all I paid, but you know the ones that are going to be good. I work for the Central Winery, for those who know where Central Winery is. Gary: Is that right? Nick: Great little group of winers. I was blown away because I’ve tasted Merlot from up there and I love them. I mean, it’s so rich and ripe and round and the tannins are supple enough. And I’ve always wondered why we can’t get Cabernet at that same level too, so we would agree heavily on cabernet and see if we can make it match up. And of course, 100 degrees. Gary: Amazing. Nick: As long as we can pick a little bit early, make them a little bit more steely and dry, as we’re watching that show, actually, I can’t remember the Jets and the Seattle gang. I love the way you talked about what you wanted and that’s exactly what I wanted. I want it a little bit dry, a little bit more lucid. Gary: I mean Nick, let’s be honest, you are one of the great winemakers in the world. And so for you to sit here as one of the three or four best winemakers in the world and tell me that we agree with Riesling, that’s pretty better. Do you feel that you are one of the three or four best winemakers in the world? Nick: In Australia. Gary: How about in the world? Nick: Well, it depends on which country in the world. Gary: I’m just talking globally. If there was a winemaker’s challenge, if let’s say winery can be at a spin off, and it’s called the wine—maybe a challenge. Nick: There are so many definitions for great winemakers. Gary: I don’t want to hear the artsy fartsy, are you one of the best? Nick: Well, I’ve had experience and I’ve stolen from the best yet. Gary: Fair enough. Nick: I’ve stolen from… Gary: How about this? Who is the best winemaker you know? Nick: There is no such thing as the best winemaker. Gary: That’s bull crap for me. Nick: No. It’s actually true. Gary: You’re nailing the French and Jews and the Mexicans, everybody, and you can’t tell? All of the sudden, you got off politically correct. Who is the best winemaker you know? Nick: If you had five acres, and you take every four thrown and give it to five different winemakers (Voice Overlap). Gary: Who is the best winemaker in the world for you? Nick: From where? Gary: America. Nick: America is a good place. That includes Chile. So I would say Francisco Baettig at Entre-Deux-Mers, he’s an incredible winemaker. Gary: So you think he’s the best? Nick: In Chile, yes absolutely. Gary: Okay. How about in California? Nick: You’re being very tough. Gary: I’m just asking you a question. Nick: California, I know too well. There are many great winemakers. Gary: Clearly. Nick: I cannot answer that question. Gary: Nick, nobody is going to punch you. Nick: No. But I know everyone. Gary: Good. That would be boys and girls. There are big boys and girls. Nick: What do you want me to do? You want me to pick on an Australian I think? Gary: No. I want you to pick one Californian winemaker and then we can move on with our show. Nick: There’s no such thing as second base. Gary: It’s not like Philip Melki is going to come and stab you in the neck. Nick: Philip Melki is French. Gary: Who do you think? Nick: I think Shaffer is a great brand, and I think that the wines are incredible. Year and year, I think Shaffer makes… Gary: His making wines for Fernandez. Yeah, he’s amazing. Nick: Yeah. He’s an awesome guy. Gary: So, he’s the best winemaker in California. Nick: I think so. Gary: Okay. That’s it. Nick: I want a six pack. Gary: Forefathers 2008 Sauvignon Blanc from Monroe. This wine has suggest retail at $18, probably worth like 12.99, so tell me a little bit about this and why you love it or hate it. You were telling me earlier that this is the worst wine you’ve probably made. You were very worried about it. It’s okay when I reviewed it. Nick: I think it was (Voice overlap) Gary: That was the last. Okay, go ahead. Nick: I’m never disappointed. Now, 2008 was a great vintage in New Zealand. And Mobra, for those who haven’t been there, Mobra is the top of the sales. So you fly into Oakland and then from there, you distribute yourself around the country so you can fly straight into (Inaudible) of Mobra. And Mobra is really broken up into three areas. You got the (Inaudible) that make more of the green bean style, and then you got the Bran cot which is where this is from which gives it more citrus and mineral, and then you got the Riparian which is more of the asparagus and grassy. And you always know where you are especially in the main valley, in the wide area which is between the Brancot and the rapier. All you have to do is pick up a stone, if it’s round, you’re in the rapier, if it’s jaggedy, you are in the brancot. Gary: That’s pretty neat. I’ve never heard of that. Nick: Very simple. You got to keep it simple in New Zealand. Speak a lot, keep it simple, and just drink up. Gary: Okay. Let’s drink up this wine. Sniffy sniff. Nick: Sniffy sniffy? Gary: What are you getting? Nick: Citrus, stone fruit, a little bit of peach and nectarine. These are big glasses. Gary: Yeah. You know, we have to compensate. Here is the thing, the funny part about this wine is it is not super grassy, it’s not super pineapple which is what a lot of people project and think about when they (Inaudible) Nick: Well, because they think in Raparro which is of the river soils, that we’re on the glacier soils. And this is a common trade that I’ve had on almost all my wines. Gary: I get a lot of guava on the nose as well. Nick: Guava? Gary: Are you picking that up? Nick: Yeah. Gary: I like guava. Nick: I like gooseberry too. But every time I say goose berry, no one knows. When was the last time you’ve had a goose berry? Gary: How about this, I just bought it at Cidrella three days ago. Nick: Awesome. Gary: I want to train my palate. I’m always buying weird ass flavors and star fruit, I’m always mixing it up. When was the last time you had purple nerd candy? Grape nerd candy, nerds. Nick: I’ve never even met a nerd. In the wine industry, we would say that the nerd factor is relatively low, so I can’t even say it now. Gary: Well, you’re probably the coolest winemaker I’ve ever met. Mott, zoom in right here. Nick: You mean today? Gary: There, that’s official. Have you ever had grape nerd candy? Nick: No. Gary: Well then, you can’t break down Australian shiraz without knowing that flavor. You’re gong to have to go out after this. Nick: I have a purchase a nerd. Gary: Go buy nerds and eat and smell them. Nick: Okay. But this is what I… Gary: Why do you totally disregard that? Nick: Because I don’t know what the hell you’re talking about and I don’t even have any nerds. I mean, how many of you guys eat great nerd candy? Gary: A lot of people. Nick: Really. Gary: It’s an American thing. More people had great nerd candy here than have had goose berry. It’s not even close. Nick: Well, that’s what I’m saying. That’s why I didn’t bring (Voice Overlap) Gary: Or star fruit. Nick: I love star fruit. Gary: Do you love star fruit, which flavor? Lemon? Nick: The orange ones that really stick. Gary: Mott, you like starburst? Nick: Well, not the pink one. Gary: You like the pink ones? Mott: Probably the lemon. Nick: And this goes back to my story. Gary: How? Nick: Because those lemon, green, a little bit of sauvignon blanc. But when I was making wine in Portugal… Gary: What do you think about Portugal? Nick: I love Portugal. Gary: I’m really hot in Portugal. Nick: So when I was making wine at Triga National in ‘93, ‘94 and ’95—Gary, you probably know this. But when you go to Portugal with winemakers, ¾ for breakfast, ¾ for lunch and ¾ for dinner. Okay, day three, and they eat that food—with that long (Inaudible) really how to get out. 100+ degrees centigrade, you’re sitting outside… Gary: Blitz. Nick: Blitz. Drinking ports day in and day out and trying to work on this food that you have a mouthful for half an hour work. And I said, “Look, you guys. Can you bring me a glass of white wine?” And they said, “We don’t really make white wine here.” I said, “I don’t care, but I like to see it anyway.” So they bring me out and the they pour the glass, condensation is coming off it, it’s stinking hot, I’m working my way on this binnacle, picked the wine up and (Inaudible). Like my whole roof of my mouth is gone, the enamel on my teeth is gone. I was like, “What was that?” The thing is, I wanted to know. Am I hungry or thirsty? I’m like, “I couldn’t get back with the second glass.” Because I was thirsty and I didn’t know what a pinot did—but that is what I want to get in these wines. Gary: You want your teeth to come out? Nick: No, I want them to go, am I thirsty or hungry. I want to go back to that second glass and be able to have that mouth watering saliva—you know, when I think about drinking sauvignon blancs, I got to have it. Gary: Don’t you think this is a little bit overpriced? Nick: You want me to show a photo of my kids? I got five kids, Gary. I got to put these kids through school. I’m coming down in sweat just thinking about it. Gary: I mean obviously, this is really good. I mean it. Nick: Thank you. Gary: If there was ever somebody on this show that I would say that this is a 47, it would be you because you are a class act. Nick: Out of 50? Gary: But this is a pretty darn good wine. And what’s really neat about this is I actually think that it has a little bit more weight which almost gives me like this imaginary blend of like 80% Sauvignon Blanc and then like 20% Loirre Valley sauvignon blanc. I almost feel like somebody stuck a little something in here while we weren’t looking because of the weight and almost the thickness that I’m experiencing on the palate and because it’s not—what I think that way too many people in New Zealand have done is they’ve become characters of themselves. They’ve gone completely over the top. And this stays in a nice box. It also brings you a lot of vibrants. Nick: Thank you. Gary: I just wished it was more like 12 bucks, that’s all I was going to say. Nick: Alright. Okay. Gary: Would you take a consideration? Nick: No, because I have another one for that. I got boulder bank for 12 bucks. Gary: Boulder Bang? Nick: Bank. That’s my other single vineyard from down there. Now, this is a right for where to start, but it’s always colder, this is quite warm. Gary: Which is the way I like it. When we have great winemakers, we would like to ask them; room temperature or cold, where do you sit on that? I drink my white wine at room temperature. Nick: I judge my white wine at room temperature. But I drink in the cold. Gary: That’s fair. You’re judging at room temperature because you’re just tasting so much more, it’s easier to catch. Nick: This wine is meant to be served cold. And with that, you get a bit more structure. So things that make a wine tighter in the mouth, acid, wood, Co2 and the temperature that are still there, so it’s important to get all those things right. And temperature, setting a little bit cold is an important attribute. And you noticed that with this wine, you’ll see a little of a Co2 on the top of this and I do that deliberately because I don’t want to have little in my acid, so I want to have a little bit more of that drying thing where I can get that… Gary: How do you spell (Inaudible) when you’re like tasting those? Nick: I don’t, I just go “zup”.